Peter Paul Harnisch: Awakening Male Consciousness

Ross Tayler: Today I'm excited to have Peter Paul Harnisch joining us on Sacred Sundays. Raised in a traditional working class German household, for much of his early awareness of life, Peter was a sensitive and intuitive child who could not understand why no one talked about feelings. Conversations were more functional, and feelings were ignored or brushed under the table. At the age of 15, something happened. While cycling one day, he stopped in front of Banyan Books, an esoteric bookstore in Vancouver, BC, and was fascinated by the window display. As he meandered through the aisles, two books chose him, The Awakening of Intelligence by J. Krishnamurti and Walden by Henry David Thoreau. He describes this period of his life as when he cracked open and his journey of higher consciousness began. To this date, at 67 years of age, his path of self-discovery has never waned, as he has a deep yearning to know more about who and what he truly is. One of his major life interests is in the area of male consciousness: how males become deeply programmed and disconnected from their hearts, as well as how and why some men experience various levels of awakening. Currently, Peter is working on a project close to his heart, Man Book [?], The Inception of Consciousness, a book and future public exhibitions that involve creating black and white portraits of men accompanied by their stories of consciousness. This book will in part serve as an example to other men, showing what a path of awakening can look like. As men are slowly awakening, they find that the path is often unclear and fraught with frustration and anguish. Man Book hopes to light the way, showing what other men have experienced as they become awake and more connected to the essence of life.

I'm so excited to welcome Peter to the podcast. I feel it's important to say that I actually met Peter when I was living in the interior and I attended a men's circle in Salmon Arm. We didn't really connect at that circle, we just crossed paths. Then, I think maybe a year or two later, we were at an event where we had a common friend who was being celebrated, and we had a conversation at that event. He reached out after that event, after I had moved, to let me know about Man Book, and I subsequently invited him to be on the podcast. So welcome, Peter.

Peter Paul Harnisch: Thanks, Ross.

Ross Tayler: I wanted to start with a question, which is, who is Peter Paul Harnisch in relation to the sacred?

Peter Paul Harnisch: Well, for me the sacred is ever-present in my awareness and consciousness. To cite the common phrase, we are spiritual beings having a physical experience. I'm very aware most of the time of my connection to Source energy. For example, this morning I went out to Shuswap Lake, as I do every morning, and I just felt her energy and such a beautiful presence. So I would say the sacred is ever-present in my consciousness, in my relationship to the sacred.

Ross Tayler: Beautiful. I can so relate to that experience, and my connection to nature and how important that is to connecting to myself, because nature is a reflection of our inner landscape as well.

Peter Paul Harnisch: Absolutely.

Ross Tayler: In your bio, I mentioned a couple of things related to men's work, and perhaps we can start there. Tell me about your relationship to male consciousness, and what it is exactly that you find fascinating and what draws you to it.

Peter Paul Harnisch: I just got goosebumps through my body. What I find so fascinating about it, and have since I was 15, though not so consciously at that time, is this. Like I shared, I grew up in a traditional German household, and there was no talk of feelings. I was quite sensitive and empathic, but didn't know that at the time. I was just aware of all the undercurrents of emotions that were going on, and no one seemed to want to talk about that. Not that I wanted to talk about it, because it was more of a fearful thing. You dared not mention the elephants in the room. As I read, especially Krishnamurti's The Awakening of Intelligence, and Thoreau as well, and different books over the years, I became fascinated by why the men in my household especially seemed so locked down, coming from that old-school German tradition and the war years and such.

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For many years now, consciousness is the only game in town. To become aware, to become conscious, is to have greater control of one's life and become happy, which I believe we're all entitled to. That's a broad topic, and I just can't get enough of it. I love talking about it with people. Last night I attended a men's circle and we had a good conversation. To communicate about consciousness is really exciting and really important for me.

Ross Tayler: My family was from the Netherlands, so it was similar energetically, because my mom and dad experienced the war, and there were a lot of emotions that were expressed, but there weren't necessarily feelings that were discussed or talked about. That part was really never talked about, because it just happened. One of the things that you and I have in common, and probably many men, and it reveals itself through this work, is that when I interviewed my dad on my journey of trying to become more conscious, one of the first things he said about me was, as a kid you were very sensitive. I didn't know what to make of that at the time, but it's making more sense as I move through my journey. So we definitely have that in common.

Peter Paul Harnisch: For sure.

Ross Tayler: I'm curious, what do you see on the other side of consciousness? When you show up in a men's circle, and this is not to judge any man that shows up at a circle, what does the other side look like?

Peter Paul Harnisch: I love that. It's a process that I remember going through. I refer to it as spiritual ego. As I learned more, book learned about spirituality, I realized, not at the time but afterwards, that I started to become a bit judgmental, in terms of, they aren't spiritual, or they're not as far along as I am, all that ego stuff. It's not too long ago that I worked for an organization where I had a 60-person caseload of vocational and life coaching, and I found at times I got trapped in that. So what's on the other side is me softening to that, becoming aware that I was just judging on a different level and letting that go. The other side of that for me now is a sweet spot. It feels more present, it feels more loving. I can look at someone and they can share whatever they want, they're suffering and what have you, and I don't want to say there's zero judgment, but it may creep up on the occasional, very rarely. The other side of it is a sweet spot of accepting that we're all one. I can see myself, my journey, in every man I chat with. I also realized that when I was feeling a little triggered or judgmental, it was an aspect of me that was being triggered and had nothing to do with them. The other side is just presence and allowing, a soft, peaceful place.

Ross Tayler: That really is the work. I worked in treatment centers for a while, and seeing people going through addiction and some of the intense behaviors that they create on their path of addiction, it can be quite easy to bring up some judgment, and yet they have not walked in anyone's shoes, and don't understand the potency of these drugs and what they do to you and how all of the sensibilities go off the table. For me, that was a really powerful experience to deepen my sense of compassion and understanding. There's still judgment and still layers, because I don't think we're ever there. We're always growing and learning. What I heard in what you said is that you also become kind of the template for others to look at and take from, rather than having to impose what it is that you believe about the world and how people should be.

Peter Paul Harnisch: That's a really important point. I used to want to, not make, but almost force the issue and help, quote unquote, people become conscious, and talk with men without being asked. Sometimes that didn't lead to a good place. Now I can just empathize and feel their struggle, because, as I mentioned, I'm empathic, so I feel them. It's a beautiful spot, and I don't impose my will or neediness to change. I noticed that came from my family upbringing, where I so desperately wanted my family, especially the men, to get it, and I was afraid to speak out. As I grew older I developed a neediness to try to change the world and have people become conscious. It's a great thing, but it's not necessary anymore. I can just allow people to be as they're going to be, and that's the most loving place.

Ross Tayler: You touch on a piece that I think is worthy of expanding on a little, the neediness, because my interpretation of that neediness is actually a nervous system that is trying to regulate in a world that is so dysregulating, an attempt to tune the experiences that are happening around us so that we can feel safe in the world. As a sensitive, as an empath, it's, what do I need to do, or what can I change around me, so that I can feel comfortable in the world? It makes total sense, and at the same time it comes with so much backlash, because not everybody wants to adjust to what we need, and there's so much nuance to that. Anything you want to say about that?

Peter Paul Harnisch: Yeah, so true, Ross. I love the way you phrased that. I think there's a core within all of us that wants to help. I think it's the universe expanding into goodness. We want to help on some core level, and we want people to be happy. Why wouldn't we? We want the world to be good and safe. So I think there's a natural impulse or inclination to want to help, but there's a caveat, and that's what we're talking about, where we can overstep and push the issue. I love what you shared there.

Ross Tayler: That's an interesting piece as well, because what you're talking about is a balance between shutting down and becoming too much, perhaps. I always think about that in terms of voice. We can suppress our voice completely or we can take up space and talk so much. What you're pointing to is, how do I find the balance of all these things?

Peter Paul Harnisch: It's absolutely true, Ross. I've found that as well. It's a balance, and sometimes a constant teetering of that balance. But as we go along, we become more conscious of that process. For me now, I don't dip too much into needing to change the world. I can just be present in it and enjoy life. This morning I was savoring my environment, and I came home and my partner was here, and I just loved her presence. There is a balancing act, absolutely.

Ross Tayler: It also reminds me that I'm involved in a body of work that is referred to as human design, and roughly 90 percent of the population, according to human design, is meant to be responding to our environment. We're not initiating, we're not taking action, we're slowing down enough and listening and responding to what's happening, rather than imposing our beliefs and imposing our thoughts. We're invited in some way to share. It's such a conscious shift to step into that way of being.

Peter Paul Harnisch: Yes. What just popped up for me, about being invited to share, is that as an empath, and I can speak about me, I assume, and falsely so at times, that because someone says something to me, or I read something on social media, because they're expressing it out in the world, it invites me to be honest and share. I've found many times that invitation is not there. Sometimes they just want to vent and not hear my opinion. I've been bitten in the backside so many times with that, and it's really an innocent thing. I'm just thinking, this person wants a conversation, so blah, blah, blah, and then, oops, I've overstepped.

Ross Tayler: That could be a rabbit hole of a side conversation that I don't think we'll go down. However, it speaks to the fact that so much of this communication is happening via text, and there's so much that's missing in just reading words, so much assumption and so much missing information. That leads to what you're describing. It is innocent. It's not intentional. So tell me more about Man Book. Well, I already know about it, so tell the listeners about Man Book.

Peter Paul Harnisch: I've got a long history in photography as well, especially black and white work, and I have a real love for it. This idea came up of doing black and white portraits of men, which I know can be very poignant, and combining them with their stories of consciousness. A big part of the direction is that I'm curious about the inception, like when and where and how a guy became conscious. When did that happen? For me, it came out of the blue. I was just cycling on the west side of Vancouver and happened upon this bookstore. I had no idea of consciousness at that time. Interestingly enough, at home I was wearing Indian gauze shirts and burning incense. I didn't know where that was going to lead, I just loved it. It just happened, and I'm curious because everyone has such a unique journey. We're talking about men in this example, and I know women have the same, that moment when a person becomes conscious, what that even looks like, and how it evolved. I'm really fascinated by that. I also thought, why me? Why did I start to break open at 15 and feel like an odd duck amongst my friends, and why not others? We can go down the rabbit hole with that, but that fascinates me as well. That's the heart of how it evolved, and I'm super excited to be doing this. I've done some interviews, I'm well involved with the project, a lot of men are interested, and it's building up excitement.

Ross Tayler: That's so great. I love that your step into consciousness happened at Banyan Books. I love Banyan Books. It's one of the things I miss, having been in the interior and now on the island. It's such a great spot, and often it's the first place I go when I go to Vancouver. I just wanted to mention that.

Peter Paul Harnisch: Me too. I don't know if you've been there, I'm a few years older than you, but I remember the old Banyan Books, and it was such a cool place. The one I went into had old slat wooden floors. The aisles were really close together, and as you walked the aisles, it creaked. It had this beautiful vibe. The new store has a beautiful vibe too, but the old store was so cool.

Ross Tayler: That's great. Now back to the importance of what you were actually sharing, which is about Man Book. What I loved about your description of this project is that all of a sudden I could track in my mind not just my initial step into consciousness, but all the other times of the next up-leveling of consciousness that kept occurring over time. What you're tapping into is the classic first step on the hero's journey, which is the tap on the shoulder, that nudge from spirit of, hey, is this the moment that you're going to wake up? Is this the moment that you're going to say yes to this journey? Are you going to turn around and face me and look at what you need to look at in the mirror? I've had so many of those moments in my life over and over again. I love that archetypal journey, because it helps men identify that pattern in their life if they haven't already.

Peter Paul Harnisch: So true. From my experience, because I have been a stubborn one at times in my life, I needed a rude awakening and a shock. I wasn't paying attention to those messages. It's my belief that the universe ramps things up until we get it. It first starts with internal nudges and hints, and then eventually it goes external, into sicknesses and accidents and so on. A small example: way back in my youth, for five years, I was a Vancouver policeman, and I did not like that job. I just wasn't getting out. It took a motorcycle accident where I ended up breaking my back to wake me up. Talking about the universe ramping it up, while I was convalescing in the hospital I just knew right away I wanted to pursue professional photography. After a year, I sold everything, packed up an old beater, and drove out to Boston, where I went to professional photography school and just gave up that career. Boom. In my youth I seemed to need to hit a wall at 100 miles an hour before I got something.

Ross Tayler: That's classic hero's journey. Are we going to answer the call? It gets louder if we don't.

Peter Paul Harnisch: It's so true.

Ross Tayler: That's the hard part. It's hard to share that truth, but it is, unfortunately, the truth if we look back. I love your awareness of looking back on that journey. I had a similar experience. I was a volunteer with the RCMP as an auxiliary, and at that time I was stepping more into spirituality. I realized very quickly that this was a paramilitary organization that was so opposite to me, being sensitive and an empath, and my path. It was also a good experience, because it tapped me into some confidence and ways of being that I wouldn't have otherwise had. But ultimately I was confronted with a lot of men who were, I don't want to judge it, because I think it's all part of the journey, but it wasn't my alignment, let's put it that way.

Peter Paul Harnisch: Totally. When I share this part of my life with some people, I say it was like I was working in a sea of my fathers. It was so true, that lockdown, male, aggressive, heavy energy. I believe that we many times don't choose our professions consciously. We think we do, but there's an underlying driver. I realized afterwards, I didn't at the time, because all I thought was that I didn't like it, but I realized afterwards, holy smokes, was this ever purposeful and important and necessary in my life.

Ross Tayler: Yeah. There are two things. One, I want to go back and edit what I said a little bit, because I did encounter men who were sensitive, men who were different than the traditional archetype. It's probably been about 20 years since I was in that organization, so I would imagine that it is changing and it's not the same as it was. However, it's also a reflection of this paradigm of men, because in that organization there's a closeness and a staying within the organization, where you don't talk outside. It's a reflection of what men go through individually as well. Anything you want to say about that?

Peter Paul Harnisch: Yeah, so true, Ross. There were a lot of good things, and I don't want to paint a totally negative picture. It's just my experience. There were a lot of things I missed when I quit that job, like the camaraderie and the closeness with men. Like you, I experienced some beautiful, heartfelt men who were also, I noticed, struggling with being in the profession. I don't know what happened to them. I also agree that the profession has changed considerably. I've been out of it for so long I wouldn't know what that looks like, but I would assume that it's become more conscious and heartfelt and inviting of men of different consciousness into the organization.

Ross Tayler: Forgive me if this is a repeat question, or if you've said it already, but what was your draw directly to men's work? You talked about consciousness, but I don't think you named the men's piece.

Peter Paul Harnisch: It just happened over time. The journey has been quite solo for me, going within and testing the waters and learning here and learning this. I lived on Salt Spring Island for three years, way back when, and when I was moving there I had an idea of starting a men's group. My partner at the time happened to know another guy who lived there and said, it just so happens that so-and-so is looking to start one as well. I thought, great, so he and I met and chatted, and we started a men's circle there that was so wonderful. It was well attended. Every week we had 15 to 25 guys show up, and Salt Spring is a wonderful hotbed for a lot of conscious men. It just happened. From there, long story short, the same kind of thing happened here in Salmon Arm, where I wanted to start a men's circle but heard of someone else who also wanted to start one. We got together, along with four other guys, and we got it going. It just appeared.

Ross Tayler: I love that. That is kind of how it came into my awareness as well. I lived on the island and experienced the groups for quite a while, and then when I left the island and went back to Squamish, it was like, there's nothing here. I guess I'm going to start one. And so I did. Having been a part of that, or witnessing these groups build and unfold, perhaps there are things that you've learned that you might be able to reflect to men who hear this and think, I would love to go to a men's group, but it's so hard because of, or something like that. What would you say to those men?

Peter Paul Harnisch: Coming from my background and perspective, I would definitely encourage it. They're a wonderful way to share openly with men of a similar cut of cloth, and there are different levels of consciousness, from men who are just starting to understand consciousness, sometimes from different religious backgrounds, to men who are more conscious. It's a real support process. For example, a couple of weeks ago, one man expressed a lot of suffering with something he was experiencing in his family, and fortunately this group allowed the men to comment. We were given permission to do so. We had these men from different perspectives commenting on their experience, and there's a lot of learning that takes place, for everyone. I've been delving into this spirituality for a long time, but I'm always learning from other men. Even validation, for me, is learning. I can see myself, a different aspect of my journey, in every guy, and that gives me such fulfillment. I would really urge guys to try it. We've had guys come to men's group who are really locked down and angry, and that's cool. We had one guy who had an outburst, and it was quite intense. There were about 15 or 18 guys in the room, and no one said a word. They just let this guy vent. He finished his piece, and then afterwards he quieted down and hung around and talked with the other guys. We ended up talking about that as a general group, and how we were just so taken aback, and felt good about how we didn't respond to anger. We were just present, and that was so powerful to feel. So I would wholeheartedly encourage it. Just go once, have a chat, because the men are so accommodating and respectful, and I have found it to be a beautiful experience.

Ross Tayler: You touched on a couple of important themes for me. The one that comes up most often is that someone will show up and share this big thing, this is what's going on for me and it's so intense. As the facilitator, I will often ask the group, can anybody else relate to what this man just shared? Inevitably every man puts their hand up, because they can totally relate. The man who shared has this experience of, I literally thought I was the only one, and now I'm getting this reflection that I'm not the only one. That's so beautiful in and of itself, because we live our life thinking that we're isolated, thinking we're the only ones, and the moment we step into a group and into a community, we start to get these reflections that we otherwise wouldn't have.

The second piece I wanted to mention is anger, which is such a layered, hot topic, because anger can cause so much destruction and so much pain, and yet it needs to be expressed. It needs to be moved somewhere. At the men's group that I run here in Nanaimo, I think it was our first session, one of the men said, and he's not sure where he heard it, that this expression of anger is how men cry. I was so moved by that, because there's this anger that comes out, and yet what is really wanting to be expressed? We always say sadness, but to say it in that way, it's the amount of emotion underneath the anger that can't be shown.

Peter Paul Harnisch: So true. What you shared about the men's group, and anger. I see any kind of emotion like that, which is quite an expressive one, as a sign. All feelings are signs, and for me anger is a better feeling than depression. Depression is locked down, and anger is on the continuum of healing. It's such a beautiful thing. I know at first, and still, I can have some bells and whistles go off inside, some triggers when I'm around anger, because there was a lot of that in my family home. But I see it more for what it is now, and it's so valid that men can express that. The process is such a solo process that to realize other men experience the same thing just feels so good. I think that's what happens. Last night we had a couple of new men in the group, and at first they were very quiet and just observing, and then after, they started to get really chatty and open up. It was quite beautiful.

Ross Tayler: I would agree, and I would say that on my journey it's less true than it ever was. However, years ago when I first discovered this work, absolutely I was suppressing those things. I didn't know how to deal with them. My commitment was to showing up, and that's the thing. You don't need to do anything but show up and you'll be given these reflections. You don't even have to share. You can just be there and get all of these reflections from other men who are doing what they need to be doing for themselves, and eventually it starts to shift and change.

Peter Paul Harnisch: I love that. It's so true about just being in the presence. I've witnessed guys who just pass when it comes to the sharing, the round-table kind of thing, and then at some point, three, four, five meetings down the road, they start to talk. That can happen too, and it's really great when it happens.

Ross Tayler: Well, Peter, this feels like a good place to bring things to a close. I always like to ask a question before we wrap up, and the question I'd love to pose for you is, what's one simple way that someone could connect with the sacred today?

Peter Paul Harnisch: There are a couple of things that jump up. One is to slow down and become more aware of one's thoughts and feelings. One of my tools is to become the observer of my feelings, knowing that when my feelings are very intense or don't feel good, that's not me. That is something I'm experiencing, and I believe that it's something I'm creating. In the past I've had an out-of-body experience where I was able to observe my suffering, and it was profound, because my observer was loving and just peaceful, and my suffering body was just so intensely suffering. So I would say being able to observe one's thoughts and feelings and trying not to personalize them. That's easier said than done. It took me a long, long time, and I still occasionally personalize it, but it's much less so than ever before.

Ross Tayler: I love that offering. Thank you. For people who want to stay connected or explore more of your work, where's the best place for them to find you?

Peter Paul Harnisch: I'm assuming you're going to share some of my links.

Ross Tayler: Yes, absolutely I will.

Peter Paul Harnisch: I have a Facebook page, The Unfolding Path, and people can contact me through Instagram. I do some YouTube videos as well. There are a number of ways to reach out. If any man is listening and wants to carry on the thought that might have ignited with our conversation, please reach out. I'm happy to share by email or have a phone conversation.

Ross Tayler: Excellent, thanks, Peter. I'm so grateful for this beautiful, organic conversation and all the things that we got to touch on and speak about, and the common threads in our paths, even though we are at different phases in those paths. I really appreciated being able to talk about those, and I'm sure others will appreciate being able to relate to them.

Peter Paul Harnisch: Thank you, Ross. I really appreciated the talk as well. As I shared earlier, it's so exciting and meaningful to me to share fully from my heart without filter. I felt we've done that, and I really appreciate you. Thank you so much.

Ross Tayler: I wholeheartedly agree. And to everyone listening, thank you for tuning in. Until next time, take good care.