Paul Stewart: Curiosity is My Currency

Ross Tayler: Today on Sacred Sundays, our guest is Paul Stewart. I've known Paul since around 2007 and have had the privilege of witnessing his journey over the years. I see him as a change maker, a visionary, and a serial entrepreneur with a deep commitment to personal growth. He naturally sees opportunities for change in the world and works to bring forward creative approaches and solutions. Welcome, Paul.

Paul Stewart: Hi Ross. Thanks for having me. Wonderful to be here.

Ross Tayler: What would you like people to know about you and the work you're doing right now, just to fill in the gaps of where Paul is today?

Paul Stewart: I think part of the conversation we have will help flow through some of the things I'm working on. But as you mentioned, I'm a lifetime entrepreneur. I'm an empath, an HSP. I'm a magician. And today I thought maybe we could focus on talking about mantras.

Ross Tayler: Excellent. Love that. And I believe you're going to start by sharing a mantra you've been working with.

Paul Stewart: Yes. I haven't always had mantras, probably more later in life. There are two I'd like to talk about today. One really reassures me, and one challenges the core of my being. We'll start with the one that reassures me. This one's a bit longer.

Ross Tayler: Okay. I love that. This is going to be great.

Paul Stewart: It's in my Apple calendar every morning. I don't read it every morning, but I often do. It comes from an evolutionary leader I met at Hollyhock named Gibran Rivera. I met him at the Social Change Institute at Hollyhock probably 15 years ago. Beautiful person. He has a newsletter, and he wrote about this quote. It's actually from Seth Godin, the writer. And it goes like this.

[Paul reads the quote from Seth Godin, about daring to dream what is ours to dream, making something only we can make, trusting it will find the people it is meant for, and wielding our art to love them.]

Ross Tayler: I love that.

Paul Stewart: It's so powerful.

Ross Tayler: It really reminds me of the great risk we take putting ourselves out there in the world to do some of the things we do, and I'm speaking from an "I" perspective as well. The end result is so gratifying if we allow those experiences to happen. We're not meant to be cookie cutter. We're meant to be unique. We're meant to shine our light. Doing that can be so risky in some ways, because most of the world is perhaps not on that path. It's questioning reality. What is it that's really important to me at my core? At the same time, I'm curious what it has brought up for you as you've been sitting with it on a daily basis.

Paul Stewart: What's most interesting for me at this point in my life, now that I'm in my fifties, is that I think for the last 20 years I've been working on standing in my truth and being authentic. Sometimes when I read this in the morning, I cry. "You will wield your art to love them." Where it particularly hits home is as an entrepreneur. I'm friends with entrepreneurs, I read about entrepreneurs, I watch entrepreneurs on YouTube, and most entrepreneurs, I don't think, follow this. I think most are looking for arbitrage and profit, the difference between revenue and cost of goods sold, and where they can deploy a product to earn profit. This speaks to the lifestyle I live, which is one of not just service, but doing things with impact that are important. As an entrepreneur, I painstakingly think about the products or services I want to bring into the world. It's hard to find things you can be aligned with. But when you're building something important, you know.

I'll give you one example. I run a company called Curiosity Killed the King, and I just had my five-year anniversary, believe it or not. About four and a half or five years ago I started working on a VR video game. As a magician, I had always been in love with virtual reality, because I'd always seen VR as magical. With VR, particularly in the last five years, you can do anything you want, magically speaking. So I decided to build a game called BeWilderness [?], where I wanted to bring wild animals into your living room. There's something in VR called passthrough, where when you put on a headset you can still see the room. It's like putting on a pair of glasses. Overlaid upon that are images, and the first scene in BeWilderness is a bald eagle. When the game begins, the eagle is flying at altitude, making noise, checking you out, and you're sitting literally in your living room watching this bald eagle fly around the room. Eventually it swoops down, fish appear, and you can feed the eagle, so it starts to build a relationship with you. Eventually there's a glove, and if you put the glove on, just like a falconer, the eagle will land on your arm. So there's this moment in the game where you're holding out your arm and a life-size bald eagle is sitting on it. You have eye contact, and you're connecting with this fierce eagle, which in most of our lives we probably won't have on our arm. It's a wondrous and most magical moment.

Did this video game make money? Of course not. When you're building VR games, you're competing with Meta and all of the biggest video game companies on this planet. But when I launched it, hundreds and hundreds of people a day would come and have this bald eagle experience. "You will wield your art to love them." The curious and the magical who have VR headsets and have this experience, there's a sense of connection that is so gorgeous that to even say "I did that as an entrepreneur" cheapens it, because it's something more than that. In my career, what I've always tried to do is stay magical and connect with those who are wondrous. It's through mantras like this each day that I give myself permission to go beyond just selling widgets, to make things that are beautiful that people will love.

Ross Tayler: Wow, I could so feel that experience of the eagle. As someone who spends a lot of time in nature, looking for eagles and seeing eagles, the experience of one landing on your arm, wow, that would be incredible. To have it happen in your own living room, magical for sure. I love that you're bringing that level of art into the world from your heart, guiding you to do those things.

The beginning of what you said is interesting to me because as an entrepreneur myself, and someone who is also an empath and a sensitive soul, navigating this world that is so busy and wanting so much from us, what I've found interesting over the years is not being able to find people who can help me move my gifts out into the world, because there's a misalignment with what you described about the bottom line and profits. Sometimes those values seem to have a cost that shows up on a spreadsheet. But the idea of what you've brought into the world, you can't put on a spreadsheet. It doesn't fit. So I've definitely navigated this life leaning much more towards the things that don't fit on a spreadsheet.

As a matter of fact, years ago when I worked for Starbucks, one of the senior managers came in and asked, what are you doing to create these double-digit sales increases? I couldn't articulate it because it was all soft skills. It had nothing to do with tactics or driving metrics. It was all about connecting with the people I worked with and supporting them to find a way to leverage the gifts they wanted to blossom in their life while working at Starbucks. It had this impact, and I couldn't articulate that to the senior manager. So I think it's part of what we're talking about here, living from our heart and doing what's right. And interestingly, Starbucks was a great platform to do a lot of good in the community as well.

Paul Stewart: Amazing. I went to business school when I was young, and they don't really teach heart in business school. Although I'm assuming through impact investing and the triple bottom line, those conversations have started in the last decade or so. But traditionally, when I started in the banks back in '93, it was all single bottom line: top line money, bottom line profit. I think we've all matured as a society so that people can now run businesses as artists, as creators, thankfully.

Ross Tayler: Yes. And there are a lot of tactics you mentioned that I can't use. I definitely use tools out there to support and guide me, and with some of what they come up with, I'm just like, no, that's not going to work for me. I'm learning to use those tools in a way that fits how I move in the world, and it ends up being a really great fit, because I can access tools that are supportive in a way that is, like I said, in alignment. So to that end, if you look at what's going on in the technology field, I imagine your art benefits from that greatly. What would you want to say about that in terms of helping you move your magic forward?

Paul Stewart: Technology in general has been a boon for entrepreneurs and creators and artists and magicians and empaths. But there are some tremendous challenges most recently, and this is where the alignment with my audience is changing. My community, as I mentioned, was mostly made up of the wondrous for most of my life. My goal, even in corporate environments, was to create magic and bring magic with me. I would say it shifted in the last decade towards the curious. I have to explain that as an entrepreneur, I think many entrepreneurs are aware of wealth to some extent, but that was never the driver for me. It was always in the background. When I look back at my career, now that I'm in my mid to late fifties, I've joked for the last decade and more that curiosity is my currency. When you look at my LinkedIn, and it's always been hard to explain to my mom, the thread has always been curiosity, always looking for new opportunities where the currency is really the learning from the opportunities.

Quick examples. When I was in the banks, I was always financing technology companies, entertainment companies, films, TV shows, video games. Then I moved into environmental impact, carbon offsets, organic food, just on and on. In each case it was always, what can I learn from this opportunity? It was literally just following my curiosity. That has been my primary M.O. for many, many years.

What I've noticed in the last five to ten years is the challenge of the attention economy, and not to drag things into more boring business speak, but think about attention, particularly for you and me, Ross, as Gen X. We spent so much of our lives outside in forests. We didn't have cell phones. I remember going to the movie theater in Hamilton, Ontario, and you'd meet your high school friends there. Everyone would take the bus, and you'd get to the theater, and the theater would be dark, and you'd walk in and say, "Hey, Martin!"

Ross Tayler: Ha ha.

Paul Stewart: Everybody would be laughing, but that's how you located each other. We didn't have Find My. From an attention perspective, for the curious among us, we had libraries and Dewey Decimal systems and the Encyclopedia Britannica. We were still fed a tremendous amount of knowledge, and we still sought that knowledge curiously. But since the advent of the smartphone, and particularly with the onset of AI, which I do love tremendously but which does come with great risk, it almost feels to me like my community of the curious are completely overwhelmed. To go from Dewey Decimal to AI is just to have one's head explode with a fire hose. I do feel for the curious, because if our attention is our liberty, and that attention has been hijacked to some extent by Silicon Valley, the curious continue to do what they've always done, which is to seek the dopamine of learning. But with these consummate fire hoses, we're just inundated with too much.

Lately what I've been working on, in the area of podcasting coincidentally, is this: I put together a small team of friends, almost like a jazz band, and we've been building an AI podcast app. The concept originally was to consume more content quicker, and I know that sounds ridiculous considering the fire hoses we have. It's called DeepPod. The idea was, instead of having to listen to an entire story arc of 20 minutes or three hours, maybe there's a way to use AI to consume all of that knowledge and deliver the most important parts, the salient points inside a podcast.

What I noticed with my own podcast listening over the last six months, by becoming addicted to my own app, which by the way I did not want to do, I did not want to create yet another attention problem, is that by delivering people a tremendous amount of content, the curious come at it and consume the same voracious amount of knowledge, and they feel overwhelmed. What I'm noticing is that there's no sense of reflection. There's no sense of understanding the meaning. So this is where we've done a pivot in the last couple of months, to try to make DeepPod a calm space. You do have the opportunity to listen to things faster if you want. Instead of three hours, you can listen to 20 minutes. But we're starting to add different features that allow you to reflect. The AI helps you reflect on, maybe you're consuming a bit too much US politics right now, or of the 10 or 20 podcasts you're listening to, three or four are actually carbon copies of each other and you're falling out of balance. Obviously I could rabbit hole on this for a long time, but what I'm saying is that by pivoting to the curious, a new audience which is close to my heart, being curious myself and coming from a long line of curious people, I think there's an opportunity for entrepreneurs to really reflect with their communities and build things that provide meaning in this moment. Does that make sense?

Ross Tayler: It totally does. I think that's one of the pieces of this podcast, to come back to having a short connection with conversation and things that have meaning, not having it be three hours, not something you have to consume a lot of. I hope the listeners are feeling connected and engaged with the guests on these episodes, feeling something around it. And if not, that's great too. You bring up some really interesting points. Curiosity has two sides when you think about AI, because if you're curious with AI, it generates so much content. It doesn't naturally and organically give you the bottom line. It just proliferates all this content, and it is like having a fire hose pointing at you. And yet curiosity and wonder seem to go together.

You said when we were kids, we spent a lot of time outside, and you're right about that. Walking in the forest, walking on a path where no one else had gone. I used to walk my dog up a river, and I loved it, and I still love it when I go out in nature. You also brought up a funny point I was thinking about the other day. I grew up in North Vancouver, and we used to ride our bikes from Upper Lonsdale out to English Bay without a cell phone. Maybe we didn't even have a quarter for the pay phone. I thought, wow, we never got a flat tire, we never had any problems, we always rode all the way back uphill. It's wild to think, would parents allow their children to do that today? Just leave your phone at home, go have some fun. I can't imagine that. We've become so reliant on these things that we never used to have.

I love what you're saying about people sending me podcasts, "You've got to listen to this, it's so great." The moment I see an hour and a half, I think, I can't do it. I'd like to glean from it some of the things that are valuable. I've tried playing it at one and a half times speed, but that doesn't work either, because some of these things are energetic, and the moment we play it faster, we're not receiving the energetic component. So I stopped doing that. But there's so much possibility out there, and I love what you're saying about coming back to simplicity. I'm curious if you could respond to all of that based on the mantra you shared. Where in the mantra do you see this showing up?

Paul Stewart: Well, from the beginning to the end. "We are not here to please the masses." My partners and I have joked that if we had 5,000 users, it would be a home run and we would slap each other on the back. "To place ourselves in the service of the creative life force." I have always disliked podcast apps as an insatiably curious person. We're building this for ourselves. "To make something that only we can make." "To bring it forth courageously": as every entrepreneur knows, as every artist and every creator knows, it takes a massive amount of courage to create, and to know it will be rejected by many. It already is being rejected by many. It's being accepted by many, but it's also being tremendously rejected by many. And to trust with all your heart that it finds its way to the people it's meant for. So we're confident it will take time, maybe years. And that these people will be delighted, that somebody gets them as intimately as we do.

For sure I will say, though, Ross, that our goal is certainly not to destroy the narrative story arc of podcasts like yours. I listen to them in full. We've really designed it for some of the more nonfiction podcasts, like Lex Fridman, that are three hours long, or some of the Silicon Valley people who I often can't stand but who do have some wisdom. Those are two-hour podcasts. If we can get those down to five to 20 minutes, we're saving people a massive amount of time. But I also think the reflection piece is important. It's not that we would have an AI voice talk to us every minute of every day, but maybe on a weekly basis we'd have a conversation with our app about what things come up for you when you listen to that amount of politics or news, and have you thought about listening to creators who are walking in the woods or traveling in Southeast Asia. There's a balance there. As curious people we think, I need to listen to more. I need to listen to Kara Swisher and Ezra Klein, even though they say practically the same things. I love them both, but we don't always need to double down on everything.

Ross Tayler: It's true. You're pointing to something that comes up on this podcast a lot, which is the idea of being so focused externally when really we need to orient internally. We have answers. We have wisdom. We have the things we need to access, right here with us all along. On a spiritual level, we can connect to all the information that's out there that we need. By listening to the same thing over and over again, we're not doing ourselves a service. So I love that your app helps people reflect, which I think is the creative part you're bringing to it, and it's so beautiful.

Paul Stewart: Reflect and embody. When we're curious and we consume, as we've done for decades if not millennia, more, more, more, "if I just listen to one more episode about the New World Order," or what have you, from that knowledge, what knowledge are you choosing to embody? I think that's the part that's missing from the Apple podcast app or Spotify or what have you.

Ross Tayler: Sure. I think we could go down this thread a lot more and reflect on this mantra a lot more. But I'm also curious, you said you had a second mantra you wanted to bring up. Perhaps we can go down that road for the last little bit.

Paul Stewart: Sure. This one's a little more challenging. When I read this mantra, it confuses me, it challenges me. I'm still working my way through it. It's from the Zen master Thich Nhat Hanh. I'm going to say two mantras in one: I'll start with his, and then I've added more to it. His is "nothing to do, nowhere to go, no one to be." I've noticed that others, like the creator Rick Rubin, have added layers onto it. I'll read the full one that's in my calendar. Nowhere to go. Nothing to get. No one to be. Nothing to chase. Nothing to hide. Nothing to prove.

Ross Tayler: In the spirit of curiosity, what part of that do you find most confronting?

Paul Stewart: Now that I'm in my fifties, I love the "no one to be." That seems easy at my age. I give that a head nod. I'm pretty confident I know who I am now, and this is who I present to the world. There's very little friction in doing so. "Nowhere to go." Hmm, okay, let me think about that one. "Nothing to do." Okay, I know Thich Nhat Hanh is being playful. But as a curious entrepreneur, I have a lot to do. Entrepreneurs, like most entrepreneurs, sit back and look at the patterns, and just like a surfer sitting on their board in the ocean, we're looking at the waves and finding our moment to jump in, often too soon. "Nothing to do" challenges the core of my being and, frankly, the core of my day. I have a lot to do today. So how do you interpret that?

Ross Tayler: I think of it immediately through the lens of these esoteric teachings. First off, I want to say that I love Thich Nhat Hanh. He was and continues to be a prolific teacher. I can imagine his voice in my mind when I hear what you shared. I can hear him saying it. But you're right, "nothing to do" is a fundamental challenge, because we think we need to be in action. And it's true, we do need to be in action. But the place I go to is, if we're driving the bus from our mind, if our mind is in charge, then we've gone off balance. That, to me, is the distinction. If we come at everything from a place of being and let the being inform the doing, then we're on the right path. It's a completely different outcome. The message is that there's a part of us that is attracting everything we need, and too much doing overrides what is already on the way. For many of us, we're going through the world so fast we miss all the signs and cues being thrown our way. Being allows us to see what's already there.

That shows up for me. I can do a walk in the forest, or I can be on my walk in the forest. When I'm being, I notice all the tiny mushrooms. I notice the little toads crossing the path. I notice the flicker off to the right, the squirrel climbing up the tree. But if I'm in my head, I'm just going forward. So I appreciate that contemplation, because I'm in a phase of my life where I'm doing less and wanting to do less. I'd be quite happy if I could be paid to walk in the forest every day. Does that stir anything in you?

Paul Stewart: The way I think about these two mantras is that the first one is almost there to fire me up and reassure me, "wield your art to love them," as I'm standing there with my boots at the door. And then as I'm leaving the door in the morning, there's Thich Nhat Hanh saying, "nowhere to go, no one to be." It's this beautiful reminder. "Nothing to chase." Rick Rubin talks about this: just let it happen. What we know as older adults is that when you just let it happen, it normally just happens. You can't make something happen faster than society is ready for it, especially as an entrepreneur. So it's a gorgeous reminder. When I say it's challenging, it's challenging every day.

Ross Tayler: Sure. The way this gets framed for me, and I love it, is that we're not meant to be in the front seat driving the car. We're meant to be in the back seat enjoying the ride, which seems ridiculous, right? But the moment I think about it in those terms, I can visualize myself as a kid lying across the seat of my dad's Chrysler 300, driving through Vancouver Island and just looking at the trees. Can we bring that energy to moving through life so that opportunities come to us, instead of trying to bootstrap our way through and make things happen? That's the difference.

Paul Stewart: One thing I haven't mentioned to your listeners is that when I'm not running my own business, I'm usually working for someone else, often in the role of VP of sales or head of bizdev, basically leading the persuasion to sell something. What I've noticed, and I was reminded of it when you mentioned being in your dad's car, is that on most of the sales calls I'm ever on, I'm usually just sitting there educating people. I'm Canadian, so I use the trust method. I'm just myself, and I'm really there to build a friendship, build trust, build a relationship. You can safely and easily educate people about something, and when they're ready they'll make a decision and they'll phone you and it'll happen. But usually there's a CEO in the background trying to make it happen faster, who's trying to get somewhere, trying to be something, trying to chase something, trying to prove something maybe, and it just doesn't work. And that's fun.

Ross Tayler: It is fun, and it can also be heart-wrenching. I remember a job where I was creating this vision. I was the one working with clients directly, and I would have my plan for the day, very much heartfelt, about building a theme or a rhythm throughout the day. At lunchtime my executive director would say, "I want you to do this at one o'clock," and I'd think, ugh. Again, it wasn't in service of the clients. It was just this in-the-moment, impulsive "can you do this, and can you do it unprepared, because that'll be fun for you too." I know exactly what you're talking about. I've worked for people where you just can't align with their agenda, and you know it's not going to have the long-term impact. Yet I always said, as long as the paycheque keeps going into my bank account, I'm saying yes to what they ask of me on some level, as long as it's not so out of left field that it causes problems. That's the trade-off of not being an entrepreneur sometimes.

Paul Stewart: Well, it's hard. When you're at the front of the boat, as the CEO or on the exec team or VP of sales or whatever, there are a lot of families these people are responsible for, and you feel that pressure. The big difference for me, particularly as an empath, is that you figure this out really quickly with the prospects you're trying to sell to. Are they interested in talking to you? What's the energy behind the conversation? Are they excited to book a meeting in your calendar? Are they excited for the conversation? Are they a champion? Are they excited to bring in other people from their company if it's an enterprise sale? Where I always found there were problems is when there's no energy. And I don't mean energy in terms of trying to build a relationship. I mean if there's no energy around wanting your solution, nothing's going to happen. Then you have that CEO at the front of the boat pushing, pushing, pushing, and it just doesn't work that way. The energy's there or it's not.

Ross Tayler: That's such a great example, because as an empath you would feel that so clearly. You're asked to follow up on something that has nothing coming from it, and you know this 100%.

Paul Stewart: Every day, all the time.

Ross Tayler: And that's hard. It's like playing a game of tennis with someone who doesn't want to hit the ball back. It's just not fun.

Paul Stewart: They don't even walk onto the court. As soon as you try to book the meetings, if you can't book the meetings, nothing's going to happen.

Ross Tayler: Yes. That kind of aligns with the last part of your modified mantra, which is "nothing to prove." That's a big one. I relate to that deeply. I've spent a lot of time in life trying to prove something. For me, the other side of proving is receiving love, acknowledgement and recognition, and thinking I'm not enough just by showing up authentically as I am. I think a lot of people fall into that trap, and I think it's part of what makes up this human experience.

Paul Stewart: Yes, that's a tough one. You might still be proving yourself to your parents or to your partner, or even to yourself. When we talked about the first mantra, "these people will be delighted," part and parcel of that is trying to find those people in an attention-deficit world. There'll be new businesses and startups that entrepreneurs will run that never find their people. I ran a not-for-profit focused on light pollution in Vancouver. Some people say Vancouver is a city with a port, some say it's a port with a city around it. I cite the port because it's full of light pollution. That was something that went nowhere. People love light. My big thing at the time was that I wanted to see the northern lights. I wanted to see the city by the light of the moon. All of these naive thoughts I had at the time, and the reality was they were not shared by many people at all. So that was one I just had to give up trying to prove. I didn't have to be right. In fact, I was sad to be wrong, but I moved on. Those happen for entrepreneurs, sometimes nine out of ten times.

Ross Tayler: Do you feel in some ways that you're always ahead of the curve, always seeing something people aren't ready for? Perhaps down the road people will realize it. But of course, how do you make a business around that is the other question.

Paul Stewart: I think all entrepreneurs feel early most of the time, because they have that innate sense to look for patterns, command resources, provide solutions and really enjoy themselves as they do it. I did that as a child, everything from a newspaper route to selling IBM-compatible computers to farmers in southwestern Ontario. I don't even know if I was 12 at the time. So it's innate. Observing patterns and showing up early is a huge problem for entrepreneurs, and if they are trying to prove themselves at the same time, it's an impossible task.

Ross Tayler: I was just a couple of weeks ago at a spot mid-island where there's no light pollution, and it was like, whoa. Just to have that experience with the stars.

Paul Stewart: The Milky Way.

Ross Tayler: Yes, it's beautiful. But we don't get that when we're in a metropolitan area, and we don't realize it's gone until we see it.

Paul Stewart: It's connection. I've argued about many light bulbs on different buildings in different dark areas of Vancouver until I'm red in the face, and many people don't know what I'm talking about, sadly.

Ross Tayler: If I recall correctly, when you did this was way before LEDs were in fashion. Now things are even brighter than they ever were with LEDs, especially driving everywhere.

Paul Stewart: The cars are crazy. LEDs were around then, yes. The trick is not to be too early and not to be too novel. For example, I ran a small business called Timejoy back when time-lapse photography was becoming very popular, probably 15 years ago. I built a website and we put time-lapse cameras all over Vancouver. It was literally a YouTube full of time-lapse of Vancouver waking up, clouds dancing, and then Vancouver going to bed. I had hundreds of people who loved it, but there really wasn't anything there other than art and beauty, which was fine, and what I needed at the time. It was novel. Now everybody has time-lapse on their iPhone. It's fascinating to look back on the timing of things.

Ross Tayler: I remember going to that website a lot. I loved it. I thought it was great.

Paul Stewart: It was gorgeous, and I loved it. It was expensive, which is why it's not running right now.

Ross Tayler: And it's your curiosity that drove that, your curiosity to do something different. It was magical at the time, whether others saw it or not.

Paul Stewart: I was quite proud, yes.

Ross Tayler: Is there anything you'd like to mention as we bring this conversation to a close? Anything on the tip of your tongue you want to share?

Paul Stewart: As a salesperson, I think it's important to finish with a call to action, which most people don't do because they might feel it's rude or not Canadian or whatever. I wouldn't expect a podcast like this, Ross, to have a call to action around your services, but I can tell you and tell your audience that as a customer and as a good friend of yours, you have helped me tremendously in my life. As a call to action, I would say that if anybody, curious or otherwise, has an interest in working with somebody, particularly if they're an empath, they should reach out to you. And how would they do that, Ross?

Ross Tayler: Thanks, Paul. They can do that on my website, which is always listed in the podcast notes. I'm really happy to support others on this journey, and Paul, I'm really grateful for those kind words. It's been a joy to support you over the years.

Paul Stewart: Thank you kindly.

Ross Tayler: I always close by asking the same question: what is one simple way someone could connect with the sacred today?

Paul Stewart: Create something that comes from the core of your soul.

Ross Tayler: I love that. Thank you.

Paul Stewart: Thank you, Ross. It's been a pleasure being here.

Ross Tayler: It's been a pleasure to have you. I really appreciate, and have always appreciated, your perspectives, your commitment to these pillars of what's important to you, and the way you work with how you see the world. It's quite inspiring. I really hope the listeners appreciate that, and if not, you have nothing to prove.

Paul Stewart: Grateful to be here. Thanks for those kind words. Be well.

Ross Tayler: Excellent. Bye for now.